This is a useful result, but it is important to note that this is not necessarily what people have in mind when they think of "LLMs generating skills." Having the LLM write down a skill representing the lessons from the struggle you just had to get something done is more typical (I hope) and quite different from what they're referring to.

I'm sure news outlets and popular social media accounts will use appropriate caution in reporting this, and nobody will misunderstand it.

So when we look at the prompt they gave to have the agent generate its own skills:

> Important: Generate Skills First Before attempting to solve this task, please follow these steps: 1. Analyze the task requirements and identify what domain knowledge, APIs, or techniques are needed. 2. Write 1–5 modular skill documents that would help solve this task. Each skill should: focus on a specific tool, library, API, or technique; include installation/setup instructions if applicable; provide code examples and usage patterns; be reusable for similar tasks. 3. Save each skill as a markdown file in the environment/skills/ directory with a descriptive name. 4. Then solve the task using the skills you created as reference.

There's literally nothing it can do by way of "exploration" to populate and distill self-generated skills - not with a web search, not exploring an existing codebase for best practices and key files - only within its own hallucinations around the task description.

It also seems they're not even restarting the session after skills are generated, from that fourth bullet? So it's just regurgitating the context that was used to generate the skills.

So yeah, your empty-codebase vibe coding agent can't just "plan harder" and make itself better. But this is a misleading result for any other context, including the context where you ask for a second feature on that just-vibe-coded codebase with a fresh session.

If you gave this exact prompt to a senior engineer I would expect them to throw it back and ask wtf you actually want.

LLMs are not mind readers.

You have to work with conviction though. It's when you offload everything to the LLM that things start to drift from expectations, because you kept the expectations in your head and away from the prompt.

Now this dynamic would be a good topic to research!

I think it's because AI Models have learned that we prefer answers that are confident sounding, and not to pester us with questions before giving us an answer.

That is, follow my prompt, and don't bother me about it.

Because if I am coming to an AI Agent to do something, it's because I'd rather be doing something else.

> opaque verifier Could you specify which tasks' verifier is not clear or defective for benchmarking purpose?

> No problems involving existing codebases, refactors, or anything of the like, Also not true and we have many tasks e.g.https://www.skillsbench.ai/tasks/fix-build-google-auto, https://www.skillsbench.ai/tasks/fix-build-agentops, https://www.skillsbench.ai/tasks/react-performance-debugging

The headline is really bullshit, yes, I like the testing tho.

Even though my CLAUDE.md is small though, often my rules are ignored. Not always though, so it's still at least somewhat useful!

have a hook on switching out of plan, and maybe on edits, that passes the change to haiku with the claude.md to see if it matches or not

If everything you want an LLM do is already captured as code or simple skills, you can switch to dumber models which know enough about selecting the appropriate skill for a given user input, and not much else. You would only have to tap into more expensive heavy duty LLMs when you are trying to do something that hasn’t been done before.

Naturally, AI companies with vested interest in making sure you use as many tokens as possible will do everything they can to steer you away from this type of architecture. It’s a cache for LLM reasoning.

No, the actual incentive is that people will eventually benchmark their models on bang-per-buck basis and models that chew through tokens are not going to be competitive. It's the same reason why the "Intel/AMD are intentionally sandbagging their CPUs so they can sell more CPUs" theory doesn't work.

At least currently in AI there is no moat so we wouldn't expect that to be occurring

Then I do it again from scratch; this time it takes less steering. I have it update the skill further.

I've been doing this on a few different tests and building a skill which is taking less and steering to do app-specific and team-specific manual testing faster and faster. The first times through it took longer than manually testing the feature. While I've only started doing this recently, it is now taking less time than I would take, and posting screenshots of the results and testing steps in the PR for dev review. Ongoing exploration!

Just as of last week I had Claude build me a skill when I ask it to help me troubleshoot issues, and it came out quite good.

It did had some issues (Claude tends to o er specify over anecdotal data) but it's a strong step in the right direction.

Also, "skills" are too broad in my opinion. I have one (that Claude wrote) with my personal data that I have available when I analyze my workouts.

I think there's ample room for self-generated skills when you use a rather long exchange on a domain you plan to revisit, _specially_ when it comes to telling Claude what not to do.

1. Capture the miss — What did the agent do? What did reality say?

2. Diagnose — What didn't it see? Missing data, constraint, feedback, or boundaries?

3. Choose a primitive — Observability, instructions, tooling, guardrails, or verification?

4. Encode as artifact — Version-controlled, repeatable, not just memory.

5. Promote to gate — When it's worth enforcing, make it a gate.

Every harness I setup includes this process in the primary set of agent instructions.

I’m reading this paper as don’t do this. If you deploy agents to your workforce and tell them to use skills, don’t. Tell them to give it tasks. This sounds obvious but might not be to everyone. (And in any case, it’s nice for researchers to have confirmed pre-prompt skill writing doesn’t work. It would have been neat if it had.)

You mean the dude who writes articles on TechCrunch and Ars Technica based off of HN and Reddit thread titles because he doesn't understand what real journalism is? Sure, we can count on him :)

:D

> A common pitfall is for Claude to create skills and fill them up with generated information about how to complete a task. The problem with this is that the generated content is all content that's already inside Claude's probability space. Claude is effectively telling itself information that it already knows!

> Instead, Claude should strive to document in SKILL.md only information that:

> 1. Is outside of Claude's training data (information that Claude had to learn through research, experimentation, or experience) > 2. Is context specific (something that Claude knows now, but won't know later after its context window is cleared) > 3. Aligns future Claude with current Claude (information that will guide future Claude in acting how we want it to act)

> Claude should also avoid recording derived data. Lead a horse to water, don't teach it how to drink. If there's an easily available source that will tell Claude all it needs to know, point Claude at that source. If the information Claude needs can be trivially derived from information Claude already knows or has already been provided, don't provide the derived data.

For those interested the full skill is here: https://github.com/j-r-beckett/SpeedReader/blob/main/.claude...

It's fairly common we notice these types of threads where one thing is being postulated and then there's comments upon comments of doer's showing what they have done.

Still, you have a more valid point :). Publishing is about publishing, not necessarily progress.

I just want folks on HN to remember they might be the cutting edge, or the tip of the arrow more times than they realize.

I wish the quiet folks who speak up from time to time would do it more often - I get to learn so much.

Not knowing is a gift in a way, we get to ask, learn.

Pretending is the disease.

Claude's training data is the internet. The internet is full of Express tutorials that use app.use(cors()) with no origin restriction. Stack Overflow answers that store JWTs in localStorage, etc.

Claude's probability space isn't a clean hierarchy of "best to worst." It's a weighted distribution shaped by frequency in training data.

So even though it "knows" stuff, it doesn't necessarily know what you want, or what a professional in production environment do.

Unless I'm missing something?

+4.5pp for software engineering is suspiciously low compared to +51.9pp for healthcare. I suspect this reflects that frontier models already have strong SWE priors from training data, so skills add less marginal value. If true, skills become most valuable precisely in the domains where models are weakest — which is where you'd actually want to deploy agents in production. That's encouraging.

This stood out for me as well. I do think that LLMs have a lot of training data on software engineering topics and that perhaps explains the large discrepancy. My experience has been that if I am working with a software library or tool that is very new or not commonly used, skills really shine there. Example: Adobe React Spectrum UI library. Without skills, Opus 4.6 produces utter garbage when trying to use this library. With properly curated/created skills, it shines. Massive difference.

What's the point of building skills like this?

If you have the idea, more or less the implementation plan, let the LLM do the coding, you can end up with something maintainable and nice, it's basically up to you.

Strip away one layer, so you have the idea, but let the LLM come up with the implementation plan, then also the implementation, and things end up a lot less than ideal.

Remove another layer, let the LLM do it all, and it's all a mess.

I conjecture that after some years of LLMs reading a SharePoint site, producing summaries, then summaries of those summaries, etc... We will end up with a grotesque slurry.

At some point, fresh human input is needed to inject something meaningful into the process.

I have actually found something close to the opposite. I work on a large codebase and I often use the LLM to generate artifacts before performing the task (for complex tasks). I use a prompt to say "go explore this area if the code and write about it". It documents concepts and has pointers to specific code. Then a fresh session can use that without reading the stuff that doesn't matter. It uses more tokens overall, but includes important details that can get totally missed when you just let it go.

No, even when you restart the context from scratch, which I do for each change really, seeing that same effect.

That's not been my experience at all, what model and prompt would you use for that? Every single one I've tried is oblivious to if a design makes sense or not unless explicitly prompted for it with constraints, future ideas and so on.

Google's Aletheia works like this, and instead of degrading it keeps getting better. I get what you're trying to say, though. The less world knowledge you provide the LLM, which it otherwise lacks, the worse its outputs will be.

... No, wasn't trying to say that at all, I'm saying that it seems like the tokens a LLM produce works much worse as inputs than the tokens a human would produce, regardless of what it actually seems to say.

Or did you hyperfixate on the colloquial usage of zip

This is simply wrong. There is no lossy compression for ZIP.

DEFLATE, by far the most common ZIP compression method, uses LZ77 and Huffman Coding, both of which are lossless. There are other methods compatible with ZIP containers as specified by PKWARE (e.g. BZIP2, LZMA, Zstandard, PPMd, etc), but all of them are lossless. According to both the official ZIP specification and every ZIP implementation on Earth, you cannot have a lossy ZIP unless it is corrupted.

There do exist lossy data formats (e.g. JPEG), but if you put those in a ZIP file it'll still encode and decode it losslessly.

Did you hyperfixate on the colloquial usage of zip?

No? I am not hyperfixating on the colloquial usage of ZIP. The colloquial usage of "zip" would be "any compression container", which is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the technical definition of ZIP: the lossless container format specified by PKWARE. I thought that would be obvious by my reference to the PKWARE specification.

Your misunderstanding might be due to not being exposed to long standing casual usage of "zipping" something up to include many archiving formats, a number of which do include lossy compression methods.

Congrats on being a 15 year old developer, though .. some of the folk kicking about on HN wrote the books(?) you may have read.

\2 sweetjuly made reference to ZIP files not having lossy methods

\3 godelski indicated they had use zip colloquially, not with the intention of referencing the precise ZIP specification.

\4 ethmarks stepped in and doubled down on the precise ZIP specification, despite that not being what godelski initially referred to.

Here's the thing, people make casual remarks, they use imprecise non technical colloquillisms.

How would you describe the actions in \4 ? Do you believe it served a useful purpose to double down and restate something that was very likely well known to both parties over a week ago?

I think that you're completely misunderstanding my objection here. I'm not in the least bit upset by people using "zip" casually to mean something other than formal ZIP files. I personally use "zip" as a verb to describe compressing to a tarball, for example. This is a technically incorrect usage, but it's okay for things not to be absolutely technically correct.

My objection is to \3, both to your summary of it and to the actual message content. godelski did not "indicate that they had used zip colloquially"; they accused sweetjuly (who fully understood that godelski was using the term colloquially and was simply making a humorous, playful, and lighthearted correction that didn't warrant further reply) of hyperfixating on the colloquial usage of zip. This is not only technically wrong (sweetjuly was "hyperfixated" on the technical definition, not the colloquial usage), but it's also accusatory and mean-spirited.

> Do you believe it served a useful purpose to double down and restate something that was very likely well known to both parties over a week ago?

Not in a strictly pragmatic sense, no. I intended to set the record straight by clarifying the factually accurate statement that ZIP is not a lossy format, which seemed to be contested. I didn't expect anybody to read my comment to an 8-day-old threat, nor did I expect anyone to reply to it barely 3 minutes later, nor did I expect to be drawn into a 7-reply-long debate about this.

Isn't it delightful how well we've proved godelski's original point about how fraught natural language is?

That is very much the intent of:

  Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

  Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. 

> they accused sweetjuly ...

Strong wording there, from you .. do you suppose that was a vicuous stabbing accusation, or a playful rejoiner questioning the zip V ZIP ambiguity? People do get a bit playful.

> nor did I expect anyone to reply to it barely 3 minutes later,

There are a number of people, myself included, who watch https://news.ycombinator.com/newcomments scroll by.

Not all the time, not obsessively, we overlap a lot and tend to catch and flag the worst of the worst .. bit like weeding the garden.

Reading this on HN... Sic transit gloria mundi!

What people have this misunderstanding?

When you create a skill for a particular model, you don't typically ask the model to create the skill based solely on its own latent knowledge. Otherwise, you'd expect the effect to be similar to telling the model 'make a plan before acting, make not mistakes'.

But that's what the paper's authors did!

When they say 'self-generated' they don't allow the model any tool access at all, not even web search.

It would be much more interesting if they had tested skills that were created in one of these ways:

A) The model interviews a human and then creates the skill, or

B) The model executes one or more deep research tasks in order to gather information, or

C) Some combo of the above.

This!

The only surprising part about the paper is that somebody wrote a paper on skills without a good understanding of the topic.

This is like saying the CLAUDE.md or AGENTS.md is irrelevant because the LLM generated it.

And also I’ve seen my manager LARP as an engineer by asking a model to generate a best practices doc for a service repo without supplying any additional context. So this sort of paper helps discourage that behavior.

Have there not been previous iterations of these tools where such techniques were actually effective?

(This also suggests that you should expect them to generally be bad at judging novel self-generated prompts/skills - if they could judge those, they would already be using them! There is a generator-verifier gap, but it is already exploited heavily during post-training and not much low-hanging fruit left there.)

I agree. (And it seems like it already stopped working, if I understood others here correctly.)

But again if I understood others here correctly, an academic paper like this would necessarily be studying models that are well behind the leading edge at time of publication. My argument is that the study authors shouldn't be faulted for investigating something that currently seems unlikely to work, because at the time of investigation it would have seemed much more likely to work.

Yes it did.

> I'm not convinced that it possibly could have. It takes time for papers to get published and the LLM world is moving rather quickly.

The paper was submitted to arXiv on 13th February, and we're here reading it, less than a week later.

But we don't have to assume. The list of models is right there in the paper, on page 5:

  We select seven frontier models: GPT-5.2 (OpenAI), Claude Opus 4.5, Claude Opus 4.6, Claude Sonnet 4.5, Claude Haiku 4.5 Anthropic), Gemini 3 Pro, and Gemini 3 Flash (Google). All models use temperature 0 for deterministic sampling.

However, I've found them to be useful for capturing instructions on how to use other tools (e.g. hints on how to use command-line tools or APIs). I treat them like mini CLAUDE.mds that are specific only to certain workflows.

When Claude isn't able to use a Skill well, I ask it to reflect on why, and update the Skill to clarify, adding or removing detail as necessary.

With these Skills in place, the agent is able to do things it would really struggle with otherwise, having to consume a lot of tokens failing to use the tools and looking up documentation, etc.

We are probably undervaluing the human part of the feedback loop in this discussion. Claude is able to solve the problem given the appropriate human feedback — many then jump to the conclusion that well, if Claude is capable of doing it under some circumstances, we just need to figure out how to remove the human part so that Claude can eventually figure it out itself.

Humans are still serving a very crucial role in disambiguation, and in centering the most salient information. We do this based on our situational context, which comes from hands-on knowledge of the problem space. I'm hesitant to assume that because Claude CAN bootstrap skills (which is damn impressive!), it would somehow eventually do so entirely on its own, devoid of any situational context beyond a natural language spec.

I have seen some devs pull out absolutely bad guidance by introspecting the code with the LLM to define "best practices" and docs because it introduces its own encoded biases in there. The devs are so lazy that they can't be bothered to simply type the bullet points that define "good".

One example is that we had some extracted snippet for C#/.NET that was sprinkling in `ConfigureAwait(false)` which should not be in application code and generally not needed for ASP.NET. But the coding agent saw some code that looked like "library" code and decided to apply it and then someone ran the LLM against that and pulled out "best practices" and placed them into the repo and started to pollute the rest of the context.

I caught this when I found the code in a PR and then found the source and zeroed it out. We've also had to untangle some egregious use of `Task.Run` (again, not best practice in C# and you really want to know what you're doing with it).

At the end of it, we are building a new system that is meant to compose and serve curated, best practice guidance to coding agents to get better consistency and quality. The usage of self-generated skills and knowledge seems like those experiments where people feed in an image and ask the LLM to give back the image without changing it. After n cycles, it is invariably deeply mutated from the original.

Agentic coding is the future, but people have not yet adapted. We went from punch cards to assembly to FORTRAN to C to JavaScript; each step adding more abstractions. The next abstraction is Markdown and I think that teams that invest their time in writing and curating markdown will create better guardrails within which agents can operate without sacrificing quality, security, performance, maintainability, and other non-functional aspects of software system.

I don't completely disagree (I've argued the same point myself). But one critical difference between the LLM layer and all of those others you listed, is that LLMs are non-deterministic and all those other layers are. I'm not sure how that changes the dynamic, but surely it does.

So long as you supply the agent well-curated set of guidance, it should ultimately produce more consistent code with higher quality than if the same task were given to a team of random humans of varying skill and experience levels.

The key now is how much a team invests in writing the high quality guidance in the first place.

Web3 and JavaScript frameworks never had the nerd-sniping power of the AI ecosystem. I'm not denying the usefulness and potential of the space, and the achievements of its current champions, but the degree with which it has consumed discussion and productivity in the tech space is worrying.

This article would be wildly interesting with the opposite headline, but instead it simply states what many of us would assume based on experience.

that being said, I think you're right that all of this will be a moot point in like 2 weeks or 2 months, when the next AI model is released that addresses this specific friction

and yeah, that's sad. there are a lot of people in companies being instructed to pivot to skills, and then before they can launch or sell their procedurally generated moat, the next AI model will procedurally generate skills better

nobody knows what to do for guaranteed food and shelter so they're grasping

Reality doesn't force us to choose between skill or no skill, reality often doesn't give us a choice. You can either make a skill for your company's proprietary system or your model has to figure it out from scratch every time by searching wikis or reading code. If you use it right, skills are a compression mechanism. Instead of the process meaning your model needs to get all of theses files dynamically, it can simply statically run.

To steel-man the paper. It is worth looking at whether you should try to code something up first or try a skill first. And it may well be valid to say try first and if you can't work it out in 5 mins, install a skill. But there's a meta point of skills as software (where you deduplicate the effort of solving regressions).

For a reductio ad absurdum, If self-generated skills with no additional context _didn't_ eventually level off in performance, then we could reach AGI by making one big skill that keeps growing and solving harder and harder tasks, including improving the capability of its own skill-builder skill, all without embedding any signals from the environment or needing to interface with the real world at all.

If you want to say what you think is important about an article, that's fine, but do it by adding a comment to the thread. Then your view will be on a level playing field with everyone else's: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

I chose a title that directly reflects an interesting finding - something that offers substantial insight to the community. I think the rule should be applied with some nuance; in this case, being explicit is a net positive.

I have no interest in linkbait, and I hope that's evident from my previous submissions

> I would frame the 'post-trajectory generated skills' as feedback-generated skills, so is Letta: https://www.letta.com/blog/skill-learning. We haven't seen existing research or hypothesis debating whether the skills improvement might come from the skill prompt themselves activated knowledge in LLMs that can help itself. So that's why we added an ablation of 'pre-trajectory generated skills' because we have that hypothesis and this seems a very clean way to test it. Also it is very logical that feedback generated skills can help, because it most certainly contain the failure mode of agents on that specific tasks.

I might have been a bit blunt with the title - sorry about that, but I still think it was a good title. From what I've observed, a lot of Skills on GitHub are just AI-generated without any feedback or deliberative refinement. Many thought those would still be valuable, but you've shown evidence otherwise.

I was starting to type out a longer explanation but I ran out of time - however, I probably would just be repeating things I've said many times before, for example here: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... - perhaps some of that would be helpful.

You're a fine HN contributor and obviously a genuine user and I hope I didn't come across as critical! From our side it's just standard HN moderation practice. The way we deal with titles has been stable for many years. It isn't entirely mechanical, there are many subtleties (back to the nuance thing) but the core rules have served the site really well. THe main thing we want to avoid is having the title field be a mini-genre where whoever makes the submission gets to put their spin on the article.

In retrospect, I'd probably avoid "useless." While it's a fairly descriptive term for their finding, it probably carries a subjective tone.

This is the correct way vast majority of the time. There are exceptions. When I know for certain that the models do not have enough training material on a new library or one that isn't often used or an internal tool. In those cases I know I will have struggle on my hand if I don't start out with a skill that teaches the model the basics of what it does not know. I then update the skill with more polish as we discover additional ways it can be improved. Any errors the model makes are used to improve existing skills or create new ones.

I think that most of the adoption around Agent Skills would have a focus on ease of use, standarization and context management and not correctness.

My own thoughts on how to approach skill building target people who are adopting LLM development now more than ever although this was definitely possible (in a non standard way before) [1]

[1] https://alexhans.github.io/posts/series/evals/building-agent...

But it seems pretty surprising to me. The training corpus contains so much information and the models operate at the level of… a bright novice. It seems like there obviously ought to be more insights to derive from looking harder at aspects of the corpus.

Why isn’t this considered astonishing?

Healthcare +51.9pp. Manufacturing +41.9pp. Software Engineering +4.5pp.

The domains where models have the weakest priors from pretraining benefit the most from external procedural knowledge. That's not surprising on its own, but there's an implication I haven't seen anyone raise: these are exactly the enterprise domains where that procedural knowledge is most proprietary and most dangerous to lose between sessions.

The paper's entire architecture is single-player. A SKILL.md sits in a directory, one agent reads it, session ends. When Agent A at a bank figures out the right approach to parsing 13F filings (0% to 75% with the right skill in this paper), that knowledge dies with the context window. Agent B starts from scratch.

We're building shared memory infrastructure for agents at Memco (https://memco.ai) and this paper maps directly to what our enterprise design partners keep telling us — the problem isn't writing skills, it's that procedural knowledge doesn't compound across agents, sessions, or teams. The paper even shows 2-3 focused skills outperform comprehensive docs, which is a retrieval problem masquerading as an authoring problem.

The question this paper should be asking isn't "can agents write their own skills" — it's "what infrastructure makes skills accumulate and transfer?" Static files in a folder is the wrong primitive for that.

Skills are most valuable precisely where models are weakest - domains with less training data, more proprietary knowledge, or specialized workflows. SWE is heavily represented in training data; healthcare is not. This is exactly what you would predict if skills encode what the model genuinely does not know, rather than regurgitate what it already does.

Building an agent OS (OpenClaw), we see this pattern constantly. Skills that move the needle are never 'here is how Python works' - the model already knows that. The ones that matter encode system-specific quirks, environment constraints, or hard-won lessons from real failures. colonCapitalDee shared a great rule above: only encode what is (1) outside the model training data, (2) context-specific to your environment, or (3) alignment guidance for future sessions. Everything else is regurgitation.

The paper tests pre-task self-generation with no external input - useless indeed. The interesting untested condition: skills generated through actual execution with real feedback, in domains with sparse training coverage. That is where +51.9pp starts to look like a floor, not a ceiling.

I have systemized and automated businesses for a long time before LLMs came out, which generally wasn't very popular.

It is really weird to see everyone get excited about this kind of automation and then try to jump to the end points with something that's non-deterministic and wonder why it doesn't work like every other computer they've used (all or none).

Agents can self generate skills, maybe not effortlessly, or with psychic skills of reading between the lines (special exception for Claude), it's also about the framework and scaffolding in which to create skills that work, and what can be brought back to the "self-generation".

Without experience in creating computer skills in general, attempts for self-generating agent skills is kind of trying to use AI to autocomplete a sentence and then not like how it went. To a fair degree it can be lined up to improve considerably.

Right now there seems to be a 6-12 month lag between studies like these and it being shared/reported in the wild.

Too often, they are researching something reported in the wild and trying to study it, and it very well may work for some cases, but not all cases, and the research kind of entirely misses it.

With AI, it's incredibly important to follow show and not tell.

Sharing this from genuine curiousity if this resonates with anyone, and if so, how/where.

1. only information and instructions on how to answer 2. some defined actions (run specific cli commands for specific tasks, use this api with those parameters) 3. skills including scripts

1 seems to be of limited use

2 and 3 can save the agent quite some time for finding a solution. And once the agent found a programmatic solution to a specific problem, they can store this information in a skill

Chaos Congress talk on this from a couple months ago, jump to the coding loops part: https://media.ccc.de/v/39c3-breaking-bots-cheating-at-blue-t... . The talk focuses mostly on MCPs, but we now use the same flow for Skills.

This kind of experience makes me more hesitant to take on plugin and skill repos lacking evals or equivalent proving measurable quality over what the LLM knows and harness can handle. Generally a small number of things end up mattering majorly, but they end up being pivotal to get right, and the rest is a death by a thousand cuts.

Just asking a model "how good is this skill?" may or may not work, possibly the next laziest thing you could do - that's still "for cheap" - is asking the model to make a quiz for itself, and have it take the quiz with and without access to the skill, then see how the skill improved it. But there's still many problems with that approach. But would it be useful enough to work well enough much of the time for just heuristically estimating the quality of a skill?

I.e. your use of skills resulting in differences of up to ~52 percentage points (or negative percentage points) in improvements (or degradations) in your percentage pass rate is a decent first-pass measure of the importance of skills here.

FWIW I didn't read the paper and am judging it based on its title, which I think is fair because "self-generated agent skills" is a pretty loose definition.

The derivative of a LLM agent's capabilities (on its own) is negative. It's not that they can't do useful work -- it means that (for now) they require some level of input or steering.

If that were to change -- if an agent could consistently get better at what it does without intervention -- that would represent a true paradigm shift. An accelerating curve, rather than one trending back towards linearity.

This represents a necessary inflection point for any sort of AI "takeoff" scenario.

So this study is actually kind of important, even though it's a null result. Because the contra view would be immensely significant.

Others here have suggested that AIs should be able to self-generate skills by doing web searches. What happens when all of the information from web searches (of knowledge generated by ordinary human intelligence) has been extracted?

On another post (about crackpot Nick Bostrom claiming that an ASI would "imminently" lead to scientific breakthroughs like curing Alzheimers and so a 3% chance of developing an ASI would be worth a 97% chance of annihilating humanity) I noted that an ASI isn't a genie or magic wand; it can't find the greatest prime or solve the halting problem. Another person noted that an ASI can't figure out how to do a linear search in O(1) time. (We already know how to do a table lookup in amortized O(1) time--build a hash table.) Science is like animal breeding and many other processes ... there's a limit to how much it can be sped up.

Not even sure how you envision continuous learning, but if you mean model updates, I'm not sure the economics work out

What Ai's get is a cheat sheet for the session

What you are suggesting is a very expensive late-training phase activity. It's also not clear anymore when fine-tuning helps or hurts. Progress is rapid

1. You MUST review and correct them

2. Embrace minimalism, they are spark notes and an index, not comprehensive

3. Force them into context

I imagine similar concepts hold for skills

Also generating skills using top of the line model to keep using them later in cheap open weights model seems like a good use of resources.

Online sharing of skills generated in such manner also seems like a wonderful idea.

For repetitive tasks, that could still be a good way to save on tokens and cost, while still remaining fully automated.

I mean, basically it's doing the same thing as reasoning IIUC, except up-front rather than inline and ad-hoc, so I'd almost expect it to work even better than reasoning alone.

OTOH something I know innately how to do, like long division, writing down the algorithm doesn't help at all. In fact if someone just gave me that algorithm and for whatever reason I didn't recognize what it was, I'd have a lot harder time following the instructions than just innately dividing the numbers.

If course anthropomorphizing is always dangerous, but it does provide potential reasons why my above rationale could be wrong.

This was realized in 2023 already: https://newsletter.semianalysis.com/p/google-we-have-no-moat...

"Less is best" is not a new realization. The concept exists across contexts. Music described as "overplayed". Prose described as verbose.

We just went through an era of compute that chanted "break down your monoliths". NPM ecosystem being lots of small little packages to compose together. Unix philosophy of small composable utilities is another example.

So models will improve as they are compressed, skeletonized down to opcodes, geometric models to render, including geometry for text as the bytecode patterns for such will provide the simplest model for recreating the most outputs. Compressing out useless semantics from the state of the machines operations and leaving the user to apply labels at the presentation layer.

The "no moat" memo you linked was about open source catching up to closed models through fine-tuning, not about small models outperforming large ones.

I'm also not sure what "skeletonized down to opcodes" or "geometry for text as bytecode patterns" means in the context of neural networks. Model compression is a real field (quantization, distillation, pruning) but none of it works the way you're describing here.

Your whole comment feels like, pardon me, like LARPing. No, small models do not outperform the large ones, unless finetuned. Saying that as someone who uses small models 95% vs cloud ones.

> Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something.

I imagine some more like. https://github.com/ryanthedev/code-foundations

Based of an actual software book.